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	<title>Comments on: Smokescreen</title>
	<atom:link href="http://pulse.ncpolicywatch.org/2007/09/26/smokescreen/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://pulse.ncpolicywatch.org/2007/09/26/smokescreen/</link>
	<description>Affecting NC public policy through informed, energetic and progressive conversations.</description>
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		<title>By: Brian</title>
		<link>http://pulse.ncpolicywatch.org/2007/09/26/smokescreen/#comment-3126</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Oct 2007 13:36:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pulse.ncpolicywatch.org/?p=617#comment-3126</guid>
		<description>Steve,
With as many posts that this thread has produced, neither you nor Adam has yet to answer my initial question. The only attempt to directly address my question was when you admitted that you do not even care what is causing the problems in the health care industry.
Adam has made no attempt to quantify his claim that it is a result of &quot;market failure.&quot; 
Furthermore, your analagy of the cardiac arrest patient further proves my point. The patient arrives in need of medical attention. Before you decide what action is necessary to alleviate the patient&#039;s ailment, you first had to know the CAUSE of his suffering (cardiac arrest) before you could determine the proper SOLUTION (resuscitation). You simply can not seperate the two, just like when we are addressing the rising costs of health care and insurance. 

Unfortunately for you and Adam, you have completely failed to identify - nor express any concern - for the cause of the problem. Without accurately understanding what is causing the problem, we can not hope to address any appropriate solutions.  

In regards to your comment: &quot;As to being a smart-assâ€¦guilty as charged. Get over it.&quot;  Don&#039;t worry, I am over it. In fact I expect nothing less coming from someone trying so hard to mask his inability to understand the subject matter. The fact that you feel it necessary to resort to such petty tactics is quite telling.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Steve,<br />
With as many posts that this thread has produced, neither you nor Adam has yet to answer my initial question. The only attempt to directly address my question was when you admitted that you do not even care what is causing the problems in the health care industry.<br />
Adam has made no attempt to quantify his claim that it is a result of &#8220;market failure.&#8221;<br />
Furthermore, your analagy of the cardiac arrest patient further proves my point. The patient arrives in need of medical attention. Before you decide what action is necessary to alleviate the patient&#8217;s ailment, you first had to know the CAUSE of his suffering (cardiac arrest) before you could determine the proper SOLUTION (resuscitation). You simply can not seperate the two, just like when we are addressing the rising costs of health care and insurance. </p>
<p>Unfortunately for you and Adam, you have completely failed to identify &#8211; nor express any concern &#8211; for the cause of the problem. Without accurately understanding what is causing the problem, we can not hope to address any appropriate solutions.  </p>
<p>In regards to your comment: &#8220;As to being a smart-assâ€¦guilty as charged. Get over it.&#8221;  Don&#8217;t worry, I am over it. In fact I expect nothing less coming from someone trying so hard to mask his inability to understand the subject matter. The fact that you feel it necessary to resort to such petty tactics is quite telling.</p>
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		<title>By: sturner</title>
		<link>http://pulse.ncpolicywatch.org/2007/09/26/smokescreen/#comment-3124</link>
		<dc:creator>sturner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Oct 2007 12:17:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pulse.ncpolicywatch.org/?p=617#comment-3124</guid>
		<description>Update..
In what can only be described as incredibly unfortunate timing for Brian, the lead story on the front page of the News and Observer Sunday was this: &quot;Laser Eye Surgery Leaves Thousands With Problems.&quot; You can read the story here:

http://www.newsobserver.com/front/story/721249.html

Here is an excerpt that is illustrative.
                           ---------------------------------

How many LASIK patients develop post-surgery complications is obscured by a lack of regulation and reporting. Because health insurers don&#039;t pay for LASIK, they generally don&#039;t track complications. The FDA doesn&#039;t require reports from doctors, and regulatory enforcement has been largely limited to recalling malfunctioning lasers.
                          ------------------------------------

The article also notes that high volumes of the procedure may actually increase the rate of complications due to inadequate screening.  To compete in the market docs have had to market aggressively and discount their services.  The reduced profit margin leads to increased pressure to do more procedures.

My only point, I suppose, is that there may be inherent dangers if you assume that purchasing and consuming healthcare is exactly like purchasing other goods and services.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Update..<br />
In what can only be described as incredibly unfortunate timing for Brian, the lead story on the front page of the News and Observer Sunday was this: &#8220;Laser Eye Surgery Leaves Thousands With Problems.&#8221; You can read the story here:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.newsobserver.com/front/story/721249.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.newsobserver.com/front/story/721249.html</a></p>
<p>Here is an excerpt that is illustrative.<br />
                           &#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;</p>
<p>How many LASIK patients develop post-surgery complications is obscured by a lack of regulation and reporting. Because health insurers don&#8217;t pay for LASIK, they generally don&#8217;t track complications. The FDA doesn&#8217;t require reports from doctors, and regulatory enforcement has been largely limited to recalling malfunctioning lasers.<br />
                          &#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;</p>
<p>The article also notes that high volumes of the procedure may actually increase the rate of complications due to inadequate screening.  To compete in the market docs have had to market aggressively and discount their services.  The reduced profit margin leads to increased pressure to do more procedures.</p>
<p>My only point, I suppose, is that there may be inherent dangers if you assume that purchasing and consuming healthcare is exactly like purchasing other goods and services.</p>
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		<title>By: sturner</title>
		<link>http://pulse.ncpolicywatch.org/2007/09/26/smokescreen/#comment-3102</link>
		<dc:creator>sturner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Sep 2007 21:50:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pulse.ncpolicywatch.org/?p=617#comment-3102</guid>
		<description>Gentlemen...I agree that the word &quot;infantile&quot; was gratuitous and should not have been used.  My apologies to Brian.  I do believe that his analogy was &quot;inaccurate&quot; and regret that I did not say as such initially.  I have corrected the offending comment.  I&#039;ll stand by my use of irrelevant.

As to other corrections...I do not own a unicorn and to my knowledge Jim is not selling his kidney on eBay.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gentlemen&#8230;I agree that the word &#8220;infantile&#8221; was gratuitous and should not have been used.  My apologies to Brian.  I do believe that his analogy was &#8220;inaccurate&#8221; and regret that I did not say as such initially.  I have corrected the offending comment.  I&#8217;ll stand by my use of irrelevant.</p>
<p>As to other corrections&#8230;I do not own a unicorn and to my knowledge Jim is not selling his kidney on eBay.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Stegall</title>
		<link>http://pulse.ncpolicywatch.org/2007/09/26/smokescreen/#comment-3098</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Stegall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Sep 2007 17:14:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pulse.ncpolicywatch.org/?p=617#comment-3098</guid>
		<description>&quot;I do feel qualified to answer Brianâ€™s infantile analogy.&quot;--Dr. Turner

That you are sir.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I do feel qualified to answer Brianâ€™s infantile analogy.&#8221;&#8211;Dr. Turner</p>
<p>That you are sir.</p>
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		<title>By: sturner</title>
		<link>http://pulse.ncpolicywatch.org/2007/09/26/smokescreen/#comment-3094</link>
		<dc:creator>sturner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Sep 2007 12:24:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pulse.ncpolicywatch.org/?p=617#comment-3094</guid>
		<description>As to being a smart-ass...guilty as charged.  Get over it.  I&#039;m irreverent.  I&#039;m sure you&#039;re on record condemning Ann Coulter&#039;s gay slur of John Edwards.

As to my bedside manner, Brian...unless you&#039;re a patient of mine or a family member of a patient of mine...That&#039;s not something you can really speak to, is it?  If you were, you would know that I am a resolute advocate for my patients.  I won&#039;t apologize for that.  I hope your doctor is doing the same for you.

Fear -mongering?  Is suggesting that we really, really need to try to find a way to cover uninsured people playing on anyone&#039;s fears?  I&#039;m not the one saying that trying to cover uninsured people is &quot;socialized medicine&quot; or that you won&#039;t continue to be able to see the doctor of your choice.

And finally, Max...  Re-read the post.  All it says is that by whatever means possible (which I foresee as a collaboration of private and public interests), we need to get 47 million people access to healthcare.  My candidates have three solid proposals to do just that, including the costs of implementation...your candidates do not.  That&#039;s a fact whether you like it or not.

So I say put up or shut up.  If that&#039;s too smart-ass for you...well, nobody is forcing you to read my posts.  I suggest you skip right over them and read my fellow contributors.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As to being a smart-ass&#8230;guilty as charged.  Get over it.  I&#8217;m irreverent.  I&#8217;m sure you&#8217;re on record condemning Ann Coulter&#8217;s gay slur of John Edwards.</p>
<p>As to my bedside manner, Brian&#8230;unless you&#8217;re a patient of mine or a family member of a patient of mine&#8230;That&#8217;s not something you can really speak to, is it?  If you were, you would know that I am a resolute advocate for my patients.  I won&#8217;t apologize for that.  I hope your doctor is doing the same for you.</p>
<p>Fear -mongering?  Is suggesting that we really, really need to try to find a way to cover uninsured people playing on anyone&#8217;s fears?  I&#8217;m not the one saying that trying to cover uninsured people is &#8220;socialized medicine&#8221; or that you won&#8217;t continue to be able to see the doctor of your choice.</p>
<p>And finally, Max&#8230;  Re-read the post.  All it says is that by whatever means possible (which I foresee as a collaboration of private and public interests), we need to get 47 million people access to healthcare.  My candidates have three solid proposals to do just that, including the costs of implementation&#8230;your candidates do not.  That&#8217;s a fact whether you like it or not.</p>
<p>So I say put up or shut up.  If that&#8217;s too smart-ass for you&#8230;well, nobody is forcing you to read my posts.  I suggest you skip right over them and read my fellow contributors.</p>
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		<title>By: Adam Searing</title>
		<link>http://pulse.ncpolicywatch.org/2007/09/26/smokescreen/#comment-3083</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam Searing</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Sep 2007 00:22:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pulse.ncpolicywatch.org/?p=617#comment-3083</guid>
		<description>The Progressive Pulse is not for the weak at heart.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Progressive Pulse is not for the weak at heart.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian</title>
		<link>http://pulse.ncpolicywatch.org/2007/09/26/smokescreen/#comment-3081</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Sep 2007 20:01:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pulse.ncpolicywatch.org/?p=617#comment-3081</guid>
		<description>Steve,
Max beat me to the punch with his answer, which I second. 

By the way, I hope you are not so condesending with your patients. As Max put it in an earlier post over at Red Clay Citizen:
 
&quot;It&#039;s no secret that the left&#039;s only instruments of persuasion are smart-assedness and fear-fongering.&quot;

So far I have been called infantile, irrelevant, and been subjected to your holier-than-thou sarcasm; never mind being accused by Adam that I &quot;believe that itâ€™s OK to allow 47 million people in our country to get inferior health coverage than those who are insured.&quot;
 
Some bedside manner, doc.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Steve,<br />
Max beat me to the punch with his answer, which I second. </p>
<p>By the way, I hope you are not so condesending with your patients. As Max put it in an earlier post over at Red Clay Citizen:</p>
<p>&#8220;It&#8217;s no secret that the left&#8217;s only instruments of persuasion are smart-assedness and fear-fongering.&#8221;</p>
<p>So far I have been called infantile, irrelevant, and been subjected to your holier-than-thou sarcasm; never mind being accused by Adam that I &#8220;believe that itâ€™s OK to allow 47 million people in our country to get inferior health coverage than those who are insured.&#8221;</p>
<p>Some bedside manner, doc.</p>
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		<title>By: Max</title>
		<link>http://pulse.ncpolicywatch.org/2007/09/26/smokescreen/#comment-3076</link>
		<dc:creator>Max</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Sep 2007 17:38:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pulse.ncpolicywatch.org/?p=617#comment-3076</guid>
		<description>Since you are a physician, Steve, you would understand, though there is nothing infantile in the suggestion that one not treat COPD with a cigarette, a virus with amoxycillin, or a broken leg with a antibacterial salve. And yet, Dr. Turner, this is precisely what you and your comrades are suggesting with your &quot;fixes&quot; to healthcare.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Since you are a physician, Steve, you would understand, though there is nothing infantile in the suggestion that one not treat COPD with a cigarette, a virus with amoxycillin, or a broken leg with a antibacterial salve. And yet, Dr. Turner, this is precisely what you and your comrades are suggesting with your &#8220;fixes&#8221; to healthcare.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: sturner</title>
		<link>http://pulse.ncpolicywatch.org/2007/09/26/smokescreen/#comment-3071</link>
		<dc:creator>sturner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Sep 2007 16:40:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pulse.ncpolicywatch.org/?p=617#comment-3071</guid>
		<description>Max...
Since I actually am a doctor, who has seen 17 patients this morning (2 of whom lost their insurance in the past 3 months), I do feel qualified to answer Brian&#039;s inaccurate analogy.

Think of it this way:  A patient is brought into your emergency room and goes into cardiac arrest.  Dr. Brian is asking the patient &quot;Why did you smoke?  Why didn&#039;t you control your diabetes?  Did you take your medicine today?  Why are you overweight?  Why? Why? Why?&quot;  These questions are part of the background to the case, but irrelevant at that moment.

A competent physician would triage the case and understand that this patient is critically ill and treatment is needed.  A solution is available and resuscitation should begin immediately.  At that moment it is not necessary to know everything about the case nor to place blame on the ailing patient.  To do nothing is criminally negligent and ethically immoral.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Max&#8230;<br />
Since I actually am a doctor, who has seen 17 patients this morning (2 of whom lost their insurance in the past 3 months), I do feel qualified to answer Brian&#8217;s inaccurate analogy.</p>
<p>Think of it this way:  A patient is brought into your emergency room and goes into cardiac arrest.  Dr. Brian is asking the patient &#8220;Why did you smoke?  Why didn&#8217;t you control your diabetes?  Did you take your medicine today?  Why are you overweight?  Why? Why? Why?&#8221;  These questions are part of the background to the case, but irrelevant at that moment.</p>
<p>A competent physician would triage the case and understand that this patient is critically ill and treatment is needed.  A solution is available and resuscitation should begin immediately.  At that moment it is not necessary to know everything about the case nor to place blame on the ailing patient.  To do nothing is criminally negligent and ethically immoral.</p>
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		<title>By: Max</title>
		<link>http://pulse.ncpolicywatch.org/2007/09/26/smokescreen/#comment-3070</link>
		<dc:creator>Max</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Sep 2007 15:50:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pulse.ncpolicywatch.org/?p=617#comment-3070</guid>
		<description>Oh, and this comment from Brian is pretty damning:

That is like a doctor telling her patient â€œI have no idea what is making you sick, nor do I care. But, here, take this medication anyway.â€ 

Didn&#039;t you want to respond to that? Failure to understand the distortive problems of government provision of healthcare is just faith-based policy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, and this comment from Brian is pretty damning:</p>
<p>That is like a doctor telling her patient â€œI have no idea what is making you sick, nor do I care. But, here, take this medication anyway.â€ </p>
<p>Didn&#8217;t you want to respond to that? Failure to understand the distortive problems of government provision of healthcare is just faith-based policy.</p>
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