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	<title>Comments on: This Week&#8217;s Top 5 / Bottom 5</title>
	<atom:link href="http://pulse.ncpolicywatch.org/2007/11/30/ths-weeks-top-5-bottom-5/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://pulse.ncpolicywatch.org/2007/11/30/ths-weeks-top-5-bottom-5/</link>
	<description>Affecting NC public policy through informed, energetic and progressive conversations.</description>
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		<title>By: gregflynn</title>
		<link>http://pulse.ncpolicywatch.org/2007/11/30/ths-weeks-top-5-bottom-5/#comment-4036</link>
		<dc:creator>gregflynn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Dec 2007 16:37:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pulse.ncpolicywatch.org/?p=736#comment-4036</guid>
		<description>Glad you scored in the &quot;top 99th percentile&quot;  and not the &lt;em&gt;bottom&lt;/em&gt; 99th percentile.  I&#039;ll let you do the math.  It&#039;s more fun that way.

NCSU can teach you &lt;a href=&quot;http://continuingeducation.ncsu.edu/fishing.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;how to fish&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Glad you scored in the &#8220;top 99th percentile&#8221;  and not the <em>bottom</em> 99th percentile.  I&#8217;ll let you do the math.  It&#8217;s more fun that way.</p>
<p>NCSU can teach you <a href="http://continuingeducation.ncsu.edu/fishing.html" rel="nofollow">how to fish</a></p>
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		<title>By: sturner</title>
		<link>http://pulse.ncpolicywatch.org/2007/11/30/ths-weeks-top-5-bottom-5/#comment-3957</link>
		<dc:creator>sturner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Dec 2007 15:24:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pulse.ncpolicywatch.org/?p=736#comment-3957</guid>
		<description>Um...pirate that was not actually my point, but thanks for the information anyway.

I hope your advisor does not read our blog.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Um&#8230;pirate that was not actually my point, but thanks for the information anyway.</p>
<p>I hope your advisor does not read our blog.</p>
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		<title>By: Pirate</title>
		<link>http://pulse.ncpolicywatch.org/2007/11/30/ths-weeks-top-5-bottom-5/#comment-3956</link>
		<dc:creator>Pirate</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Dec 2007 15:15:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pulse.ncpolicywatch.org/?p=736#comment-3956</guid>
		<description>Jerimee, you don&#039;t need a college degree to learn how to fish (ie. technical/job training).  I just so happen to believe that we need to increase access to this sort of training.  I agree with Martin Lancaster and the Gov that we should not deny access to higher education for illegals, for instance.

The purpose of my post here is to make the point that higher education, however, is not a right.  Anyone who has ever taken a political theory class can explain this to you in about two minutes.  My comments about minimum IQ is only to make the point that a large portion of any given population are necessarily excluded from higher education.  You can&#039;t call something a &quot;right&quot; under these circumstances.

As far as my IQ goes, sturner, lets just say that according to my GRE scores for the graduate school I am attending, I scored in the top 99th percentile.  I&#039;ll let you do the math since you are so much more intelligent than I am.  As far as ECU&#039;s reputation for having low standards of admission for the undergraduate programs, I agree completely.  ECU is far more concerned with quanity than quality.  This is one of the reasons I have such a strong opinion about this whole notion that higher education is a &quot;right&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jerimee, you don&#8217;t need a college degree to learn how to fish (ie. technical/job training).  I just so happen to believe that we need to increase access to this sort of training.  I agree with Martin Lancaster and the Gov that we should not deny access to higher education for illegals, for instance.</p>
<p>The purpose of my post here is to make the point that higher education, however, is not a right.  Anyone who has ever taken a political theory class can explain this to you in about two minutes.  My comments about minimum IQ is only to make the point that a large portion of any given population are necessarily excluded from higher education.  You can&#8217;t call something a &#8220;right&#8221; under these circumstances.</p>
<p>As far as my IQ goes, sturner, lets just say that according to my GRE scores for the graduate school I am attending, I scored in the top 99th percentile.  I&#8217;ll let you do the math since you are so much more intelligent than I am.  As far as ECU&#8217;s reputation for having low standards of admission for the undergraduate programs, I agree completely.  ECU is far more concerned with quanity than quality.  This is one of the reasons I have such a strong opinion about this whole notion that higher education is a &#8220;right&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: sturner</title>
		<link>http://pulse.ncpolicywatch.org/2007/11/30/ths-weeks-top-5-bottom-5/#comment-3951</link>
		<dc:creator>sturner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Dec 2007 02:48:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pulse.ncpolicywatch.org/?p=736#comment-3951</guid>
		<description>Pirate...I lost 3 points off my IQ just reading your comment...

Your theory of minimal IQ needed to succeed in college is self-evidently flawed...being that you are an ECU Pirate.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pirate&#8230;I lost 3 points off my IQ just reading your comment&#8230;</p>
<p>Your theory of minimal IQ needed to succeed in college is self-evidently flawed&#8230;being that you are an ECU Pirate.</p>
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		<title>By: Jerimee</title>
		<link>http://pulse.ncpolicywatch.org/2007/11/30/ths-weeks-top-5-bottom-5/#comment-3946</link>
		<dc:creator>Jerimee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Dec 2007 18:08:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pulse.ncpolicywatch.org/?p=736#comment-3946</guid>
		<description>Pirate, weren&#039;t you just yesterday saying something about &quot;teach a man to fish?&quot;  

I understand if your ideas are based on simply looking out for what is best for you.  However, if you are trying to make a point about what&#039;s good and just, your statements seem self-contradictory.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pirate, weren&#8217;t you just yesterday saying something about &#8220;teach a man to fish?&#8221;  </p>
<p>I understand if your ideas are based on simply looking out for what is best for you.  However, if you are trying to make a point about what&#8217;s good and just, your statements seem self-contradictory.</p>
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		<title>By: Pirate</title>
		<link>http://pulse.ncpolicywatch.org/2007/11/30/ths-weeks-top-5-bottom-5/#comment-3943</link>
		<dc:creator>Pirate</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Dec 2007 15:04:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pulse.ncpolicywatch.org/?p=736#comment-3943</guid>
		<description>Peace, when you say &quot;We all have a right to education&quot; who exactly do you mean when you say &quot;we&quot; and how do you define a &quot;right to education&quot;?  

If by we, you mean Americans citizens then that would mean illegal immigrants do not belong to this group.  If you mean anyone who manages to sneak onto US soil, does that mean terrorists have a &quot;right to education&quot; if they make it across our borders?  If you mean all human beings, then shouldn&#039;t we just get rid of all borders and allow everyone on earth to come and go on our college campuses?  Do we get rid of the system of in-state and out-of-state tuition in this case?

If by &quot;right of education&quot; you mean that education is something that people who have the means to access it should not be denied, then that isn&#039;t really a right is it?  That is would be describing a privilege.  If on the other hand you mean that it is a right in the sense that anyone who wants to participate should be guaranteed the opportunity, that creates a whole series of problems.  

For one, it is generally considered to be the case that a person needs at least a 100 IQ to be successful in an undergraduate program, at least a 110 to be successful in a graduate program, and at least 130 IQ to be successful in a doctorate program.  Since 100 IQ is the median and IQ is represented by a bell curve, 1/2 of the sample of any given population are considered mentally incapable of completing an undergraduate degree

So if &quot;We all have a right to education&quot;, shouldn&#039;t we lower the standards to the point that even folks with an IQ of 30 could successfully complete our undergraduate and post-graduate degree programs?  But what about the poor soul with an IQ of 28? :-(

If we don&#039;t lower the standard, then we are acknowledging the fact that about 1/2 of the population are mentally incapable of completing college.  When only 1/2 of the population can participate, that is hardly a right...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Peace, when you say &#8220;We all have a right to education&#8221; who exactly do you mean when you say &#8220;we&#8221; and how do you define a &#8220;right to education&#8221;?  </p>
<p>If by we, you mean Americans citizens then that would mean illegal immigrants do not belong to this group.  If you mean anyone who manages to sneak onto US soil, does that mean terrorists have a &#8220;right to education&#8221; if they make it across our borders?  If you mean all human beings, then shouldn&#8217;t we just get rid of all borders and allow everyone on earth to come and go on our college campuses?  Do we get rid of the system of in-state and out-of-state tuition in this case?</p>
<p>If by &#8220;right of education&#8221; you mean that education is something that people who have the means to access it should not be denied, then that isn&#8217;t really a right is it?  That is would be describing a privilege.  If on the other hand you mean that it is a right in the sense that anyone who wants to participate should be guaranteed the opportunity, that creates a whole series of problems.  </p>
<p>For one, it is generally considered to be the case that a person needs at least a 100 IQ to be successful in an undergraduate program, at least a 110 to be successful in a graduate program, and at least 130 IQ to be successful in a doctorate program.  Since 100 IQ is the median and IQ is represented by a bell curve, 1/2 of the sample of any given population are considered mentally incapable of completing an undergraduate degree</p>
<p>So if &#8220;We all have a right to education&#8221;, shouldn&#8217;t we lower the standards to the point that even folks with an IQ of 30 could successfully complete our undergraduate and post-graduate degree programs?  But what about the poor soul with an IQ of 28? :-(</p>
<p>If we don&#8217;t lower the standard, then we are acknowledging the fact that about 1/2 of the population are mentally incapable of completing college.  When only 1/2 of the population can participate, that is hardly a right&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Peace</title>
		<link>http://pulse.ncpolicywatch.org/2007/11/30/ths-weeks-top-5-bottom-5/#comment-3929</link>
		<dc:creator>Peace</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Dec 2007 18:59:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pulse.ncpolicywatch.org/?p=736#comment-3929</guid>
		<description>In response to DEFuning - We all have a right to education. Colleges should not base their acceptance criteria on whether or not our government has solved their immigration issue. Whether schools accept those who are undocumented or not will not pressure the federal government to respond. This isn&#039;t a piecemeal immigration policy. This is simply allowing those qualified to continue their education. I don&#039;t see who is harmed by this measure. Denying rights to people will not stop the exploitation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In response to DEFuning &#8211; We all have a right to education. Colleges should not base their acceptance criteria on whether or not our government has solved their immigration issue. Whether schools accept those who are undocumented or not will not pressure the federal government to respond. This isn&#8217;t a piecemeal immigration policy. This is simply allowing those qualified to continue their education. I don&#8217;t see who is harmed by this measure. Denying rights to people will not stop the exploitation.</p>
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		<title>By: DEFuning</title>
		<link>http://pulse.ncpolicywatch.org/2007/11/30/ths-weeks-top-5-bottom-5/#comment-3927</link>
		<dc:creator>DEFuning</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Dec 2007 16:17:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pulse.ncpolicywatch.org/?p=736#comment-3927</guid>
		<description>On Community College admissions of undocumented immigrants- this is a bad policy for a couple of reasons. One: Immigration policy is a Federal issue and we should not be lessening the pressure on the Feds&#039; responsibilities that they have shirked by passing piecemeal measures on the state or local level.  This only aids and abets their failure to take a stand and do their jobs (the sniveling weasels).  To pass piecemeal policies acts as a steam release valve and takes the heat off the Congress to take a stand on the exploitation of undocumented workers and stop the practice altogether--but that might upset the business community wouldn&#039;t it?  Sometimes things have to get a lot worse before they get better.  The only humanitarian thing to do is to stop the exploitation. Period. Give them rights and fair pay or don&#039;t--but half -arsed measures only make the situation worse. 

 Second: to justify the practical impact of this decision by saying that only a small number of undocumented immigrants will be able to access this opportunity because of the out-of-state tuition hurdle is not only a chicken way of softening the blow  for those who oppose undocumented immigrants in our country but is also discriminatory--not based on immigration status but on economic class.  So WEALTHY undocumented immigrants get to access higher education but poor ones don&#039;t ?  Well, that&#039;s just a damn warm fuzzy Hallmark Moment, ain&#039;t it?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On Community College admissions of undocumented immigrants- this is a bad policy for a couple of reasons. One: Immigration policy is a Federal issue and we should not be lessening the pressure on the Feds&#8217; responsibilities that they have shirked by passing piecemeal measures on the state or local level.  This only aids and abets their failure to take a stand and do their jobs (the sniveling weasels).  To pass piecemeal policies acts as a steam release valve and takes the heat off the Congress to take a stand on the exploitation of undocumented workers and stop the practice altogether&#8211;but that might upset the business community wouldn&#8217;t it?  Sometimes things have to get a lot worse before they get better.  The only humanitarian thing to do is to stop the exploitation. Period. Give them rights and fair pay or don&#8217;t&#8211;but half -arsed measures only make the situation worse. </p>
<p> Second: to justify the practical impact of this decision by saying that only a small number of undocumented immigrants will be able to access this opportunity because of the out-of-state tuition hurdle is not only a chicken way of softening the blow  for those who oppose undocumented immigrants in our country but is also discriminatory&#8211;not based on immigration status but on economic class.  So WEALTHY undocumented immigrants get to access higher education but poor ones don&#8217;t ?  Well, that&#8217;s just a damn warm fuzzy Hallmark Moment, ain&#8217;t it?</p>
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		<title>By: anglico</title>
		<link>http://pulse.ncpolicywatch.org/2007/11/30/ths-weeks-top-5-bottom-5/#comment-3925</link>
		<dc:creator>anglico</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Dec 2007 13:26:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pulse.ncpolicywatch.org/?p=736#comment-3925</guid>
		<description>Kudos.  Good list . . . and glad to see you&#039;re sticking with it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kudos.  Good list . . . and glad to see you&#8217;re sticking with it.</p>
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