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	<title>Comments on: Bush to Veto SCHIP Again Today</title>
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	<description>The Progressive Pulse is a blog about the issues, debates, and people that affect North Carolina public policy. As with the organization that sponsors it, NC Policy Watch, its ultimate objective is to improve the quality of life in the state, in this case by promoting the development of an informed, energetic and progressive online community. The Progressive Pulse welcomes the contributions of interested people of all points of view provided they are of a reasonable length, have some relevance to issues of North Carolina public policy and abide by the common rules of online etiquette (i.e., please avoid inappropriate language and show a measure of respect for others --even the John Locke Foundation). To post a comment, simply click the comment line then provide your name and email. Your email address will not be collected or shared. If you would like to be contributing writer, please send your post to info@ncpolicywatch.com with &#039;blog&#039; in the subject line. If the post meets with our criteria (has a progressive perspective and is relative to our state), we will publish it.</description>
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		<title>By: Bonita</title>
		<link>http://pulse.ncpolicywatch.org/2007/12/12/bush-to-veto-schip-again-today/comment-page-1/#comment-10748</link>
		<dc:creator>Bonita</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 May 2008 17:19:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pulse.ncpolicywatch.org/?p=758#comment-10748</guid>
		<description>I love how everyone is always about penalizing the smokers and always using them as a fall back....you non smokers would more than find it a problem if we taxed your alcohol or your fast food...just because we smoke doesn&#039;t mean we deserve to be singled out and taxed...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I love how everyone is always about penalizing the smokers and always using them as a fall back&#8230;.you non smokers would more than find it a problem if we taxed your alcohol or your fast food&#8230;just because we smoke doesn&#8217;t mean we deserve to be singled out and taxed&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Pirate</title>
		<link>http://pulse.ncpolicywatch.org/2007/12/12/bush-to-veto-schip-again-today/comment-page-1/#comment-4616</link>
		<dc:creator>Pirate</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Dec 2007 19:02:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pulse.ncpolicywatch.org/?p=758#comment-4616</guid>
		<description>Medicare is a good model?  Try telling that to the people who are refused dental care because the government keeps cutting reimbursal rates in order to reign in exploding costs.  Sorry, but I really don&#039;t want to have my medical care decisions made by 3 or 4 State Senators in a tiny room on the sixth floor of the LOB.  

The only thing a &quot;universal default system&quot; will do is raise taxes on everyone while you will still have huge out-of-pocket expenses or have to have private insurance if you want quality healthcare.  The government will do EVERYTHING it can to minimize the cost to taxpayers in order to avoid backlash at the polls.  In doing so, they will limit reimbursement rates, limit services, and limit medicinal options to keep costs at a minimum.  You are crazy if you think we can have a &quot;universal system&quot; that will cover everyone with every possible form of illness and medical need.  The costs would be too prohibitive and politicians in a democracy will not be foolish enough to even try that.

And it&#039;s easy to say that Medicaid has less overhead than private insurers when the private insurers have to protect themselves from fraud but Medicaid can outsource this cost to the AG&#039;s office.
http://www.allamericanpatriots.com/48739400_medicaid-fraud-busts-net-more-20-million-07-says-north-carolina-ag-cooper</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Medicare is a good model?  Try telling that to the people who are refused dental care because the government keeps cutting reimbursal rates in order to reign in exploding costs.  Sorry, but I really don&#8217;t want to have my medical care decisions made by 3 or 4 State Senators in a tiny room on the sixth floor of the LOB.  </p>
<p>The only thing a &#8220;universal default system&#8221; will do is raise taxes on everyone while you will still have huge out-of-pocket expenses or have to have private insurance if you want quality healthcare.  The government will do EVERYTHING it can to minimize the cost to taxpayers in order to avoid backlash at the polls.  In doing so, they will limit reimbursement rates, limit services, and limit medicinal options to keep costs at a minimum.  You are crazy if you think we can have a &#8220;universal system&#8221; that will cover everyone with every possible form of illness and medical need.  The costs would be too prohibitive and politicians in a democracy will not be foolish enough to even try that.</p>
<p>And it&#8217;s easy to say that Medicaid has less overhead than private insurers when the private insurers have to protect themselves from fraud but Medicaid can outsource this cost to the AG&#8217;s office.<br />
<a href="http://www.allamericanpatriots.com/48739400_medicaid-fraud-busts-net-more-20-million-07-says-north-carolina-ag-cooper" rel="nofollow">http://www.allamericanpatriots.com/48739400_medicaid-fraud-busts-net-more-20-million-07-says-north-carolina-ag-cooper</a></p>
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		<title>By: gregflynn</title>
		<link>http://pulse.ncpolicywatch.org/2007/12/12/bush-to-veto-schip-again-today/comment-page-1/#comment-4392</link>
		<dc:creator>gregflynn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Dec 2007 19:14:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pulse.ncpolicywatch.org/?p=758#comment-4392</guid>
		<description>Employer based health insurance is a product of government tax breaks.  Rising treatment and drug costs are causing employers to drop health insurance benefits and insurers to drop coverage.  It may not be there when you get that job or think you need it.

An increasing number of working people are not making enough to pay for health insurance (but making too much to qualify for Medicaid.  (Medicare is for 65 and over and some disabled people).  Poor people don&#039;t necessarily qualify for Medicaid either and others may qualify only after they have incurred excessive medical expenses ie are sick and then become poor because of it.

Employer based health insurance can be good until you switch employers or the plan morphs.  Your medical and pharmacy claim history becomes a basis for exclusion. Private insurers spend a lot of money making sure they don&#039;t pay your bills.  With a universal default system all the costs associated with the marketing and mark-down machinery are eliminated.  Medicare is a good model with less overhead than private industry.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Employer based health insurance is a product of government tax breaks.  Rising treatment and drug costs are causing employers to drop health insurance benefits and insurers to drop coverage.  It may not be there when you get that job or think you need it.</p>
<p>An increasing number of working people are not making enough to pay for health insurance (but making too much to qualify for Medicaid.  (Medicare is for 65 and over and some disabled people).  Poor people don&#8217;t necessarily qualify for Medicaid either and others may qualify only after they have incurred excessive medical expenses ie are sick and then become poor because of it.</p>
<p>Employer based health insurance can be good until you switch employers or the plan morphs.  Your medical and pharmacy claim history becomes a basis for exclusion. Private insurers spend a lot of money making sure they don&#8217;t pay your bills.  With a universal default system all the costs associated with the marketing and mark-down machinery are eliminated.  Medicare is a good model with less overhead than private industry.</p>
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		<title>By: Pirate</title>
		<link>http://pulse.ncpolicywatch.org/2007/12/12/bush-to-veto-schip-again-today/comment-page-1/#comment-4383</link>
		<dc:creator>Pirate</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Dec 2007 15:24:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pulse.ncpolicywatch.org/?p=758#comment-4383</guid>
		<description>The candidates are not addressing &quot;Attending to individuals with limited access to health care&quot;, they are advocating that everyone in the country should be forced by law to purchace insurance in order to lower the price of healthcare premiums.  We already have government programs that attend &quot;to individuals with limited access to health care&quot; like Medicaid and Medicare.  

The purpose of advocating mandatory coverage is to make healthcare more &quot;affordable&quot;.  This is a blatant vote grabbing scheme aimed at middle class voters.  It&#039;s not about helping the poor.  It certainly won&#039;t help me if I am forced to buy something I don&#039;t need or want.  If anything, it will only force me to delay my education and force me to look for another job so that I can continue to pay my other bills.  I&#039;d much rather finish school and then get a job that provides health coverage as a part of my compensation for employment.

The people who benefit the most from this scheme are the middle class and the poor are going to be stuck with paying the bills.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The candidates are not addressing &#8220;Attending to individuals with limited access to health care&#8221;, they are advocating that everyone in the country should be forced by law to purchace insurance in order to lower the price of healthcare premiums.  We already have government programs that attend &#8220;to individuals with limited access to health care&#8221; like Medicaid and Medicare.  </p>
<p>The purpose of advocating mandatory coverage is to make healthcare more &#8220;affordable&#8221;.  This is a blatant vote grabbing scheme aimed at middle class voters.  It&#8217;s not about helping the poor.  It certainly won&#8217;t help me if I am forced to buy something I don&#8217;t need or want.  If anything, it will only force me to delay my education and force me to look for another job so that I can continue to pay my other bills.  I&#8217;d much rather finish school and then get a job that provides health coverage as a part of my compensation for employment.</p>
<p>The people who benefit the most from this scheme are the middle class and the poor are going to be stuck with paying the bills.</p>
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		<title>By: gregflynn</title>
		<link>http://pulse.ncpolicywatch.org/2007/12/12/bush-to-veto-schip-again-today/comment-page-1/#comment-4324</link>
		<dc:creator>gregflynn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Dec 2007 19:41:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pulse.ncpolicywatch.org/?p=758#comment-4324</guid>
		<description>Health care is not a commodity.  Attending to individuals with limited access to health care does not diminish the rights of others.

The Kaiser Family Foundation has some good information on &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.kff.org/uninsured/index.cfm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Health Coverage &amp; the Uninsured&lt;/a&gt; if you wish to explore it further.  You can even &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.health08.org/sidebyside.cfm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;compare candidates health care proposals&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Health care is not a commodity.  Attending to individuals with limited access to health care does not diminish the rights of others.</p>
<p>The Kaiser Family Foundation has some good information on <a href="http://www.kff.org/uninsured/index.cfm" rel="nofollow">Health Coverage &amp; the Uninsured</a> if you wish to explore it further.  You can even <a href="http://www.health08.org/sidebyside.cfm" rel="nofollow">compare candidates health care proposals</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: Pirate</title>
		<link>http://pulse.ncpolicywatch.org/2007/12/12/bush-to-veto-schip-again-today/comment-page-1/#comment-4319</link>
		<dc:creator>Pirate</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Dec 2007 18:32:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pulse.ncpolicywatch.org/?p=758#comment-4319</guid>
		<description>We are discussing your statement that â€œGovernment has a legitimate role in seeing that coverage is available to everyone.â€  The major candidates of your party are advocating mandatory health coverage for everyone on the basis that if more people have insurance premiums will go down.

Should the government also be able to mandate that everyone buy a hybrid or non-fossil fuel burning car?  This would put more of the cars into the market and would eventually cause the price of these vehicles to decrease.  How is this any different from your argument for universal health insurance?  They would both be in the collective interest, would they not?  When we are discussing the collective good, the needs or rights of the individual are meaningless, right?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We are discussing your statement that â€œGovernment has a legitimate role in seeing that coverage is available to everyone.â€  The major candidates of your party are advocating mandatory health coverage for everyone on the basis that if more people have insurance premiums will go down.</p>
<p>Should the government also be able to mandate that everyone buy a hybrid or non-fossil fuel burning car?  This would put more of the cars into the market and would eventually cause the price of these vehicles to decrease.  How is this any different from your argument for universal health insurance?  They would both be in the collective interest, would they not?  When we are discussing the collective good, the needs or rights of the individual are meaningless, right?</p>
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		<title>By: gregflynn</title>
		<link>http://pulse.ncpolicywatch.org/2007/12/12/bush-to-veto-schip-again-today/comment-page-1/#comment-4316</link>
		<dc:creator>gregflynn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Dec 2007 16:22:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pulse.ncpolicywatch.org/?p=758#comment-4316</guid>
		<description>If you want to understand what I base my beliefs on then ask me about that.

You are asking me to explain something I have not specifically advocated. You seem to be itching for a fight with someone over your own fears.

Instead of asking me to explain your own specific fears why don&#039;t you state them with respect to some specific plan that is generating them?

Government requires that water be available in all occupied buildings.  Government doesn&#039;t have to provide the water though it often does.  You&#039;re not forced to buy it or even use it.

The following text comes from NC General Statutes Chapter 130A, Public Health:
&lt;blockquote&gt;Â§ 130A-1.1.  Mission and essential services.

(a) The General Assembly recognizes that unified purpose and direction of the public health system is necessary to ensure that all citizens in the State have equal access to essential public health services. The General Assembly declares that the mission of the public health system is to promote and contribute to the highest level of health possible for the people of North Carolina by:

(1) Preventing health risks and disease;
(2) Identifying and reducing health risks in the community;
(3) Detecting, investigating, and preventing the spread of disease;
(4) Promoting healthy lifestyles;
(5) Promoting a safe and healthful environment;
(6) Promoting the availability and accessibility of quality health care services through the private sector; and
(7) Providing quality health care services when not otherwise available.

(b) As used in this section, the term &quot;essential public health services&quot; means those services that the State shall ensure because they are essential to promoting and contributing to the highest level of health possible for the citizens of North Carolina. The Departments of Environment and Natural Resources and Health and Human Services shall attempt to ensure within the resources available to them that the following essential public health services are available and accessible to all citizens of the State, and shall account for the financing of these services:

(1) Health Support:
a. Assessment of health status, health needs, and environmental risks to health;
b. Patient and community education;
c. Public health laboratory;
d. Registration of vital events;

(2) Environmental Health:
a. Lodging and institutional sanitation;
b. On-site domestic sewage disposal;
c. Water and food safety and sanitation; and

(3) Personal Health:
a. Child health;
b. Chronic disease control;
c. Communicable disease control;
d. Dental public health;
e. Family planning;
f. Health promotion and risk reduction;
g. Maternal health.

The Commission for Health Services shall determine specific services to be provided under each of the essential public health services categories listed above.

(c) The General Assembly recognizes that there are health-related services currently provided by State and local government and the private sector that are important to maintaining a healthy social and ecological environment but that are not included on the list of essential public health services required under this section. Omission of these services from the list of essential public health services shall not be construed as an intent to prohibit or decrease their availability. Rather, such omission means only that the omitted services may be more appropriately assured by government agencies or private entities other than the public health system.&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you want to understand what I base my beliefs on then ask me about that.</p>
<p>You are asking me to explain something I have not specifically advocated. You seem to be itching for a fight with someone over your own fears.</p>
<p>Instead of asking me to explain your own specific fears why don&#8217;t you state them with respect to some specific plan that is generating them?</p>
<p>Government requires that water be available in all occupied buildings.  Government doesn&#8217;t have to provide the water though it often does.  You&#8217;re not forced to buy it or even use it.</p>
<p>The following text comes from NC General Statutes Chapter 130A, Public Health:</p>
<blockquote><p>Â§ 130A-1.1.  Mission and essential services.</p>
<p>(a) The General Assembly recognizes that unified purpose and direction of the public health system is necessary to ensure that all citizens in the State have equal access to essential public health services. The General Assembly declares that the mission of the public health system is to promote and contribute to the highest level of health possible for the people of North Carolina by:</p>
<p>(1) Preventing health risks and disease;<br />
(2) Identifying and reducing health risks in the community;<br />
(3) Detecting, investigating, and preventing the spread of disease;<br />
(4) Promoting healthy lifestyles;<br />
(5) Promoting a safe and healthful environment;<br />
(6) Promoting the availability and accessibility of quality health care services through the private sector; and<br />
(7) Providing quality health care services when not otherwise available.</p>
<p>(b) As used in this section, the term &#8220;essential public health services&#8221; means those services that the State shall ensure because they are essential to promoting and contributing to the highest level of health possible for the citizens of North Carolina. The Departments of Environment and Natural Resources and Health and Human Services shall attempt to ensure within the resources available to them that the following essential public health services are available and accessible to all citizens of the State, and shall account for the financing of these services:</p>
<p>(1) Health Support:<br />
a. Assessment of health status, health needs, and environmental risks to health;<br />
b. Patient and community education;<br />
c. Public health laboratory;<br />
d. Registration of vital events;</p>
<p>(2) Environmental Health:<br />
a. Lodging and institutional sanitation;<br />
b. On-site domestic sewage disposal;<br />
c. Water and food safety and sanitation; and</p>
<p>(3) Personal Health:<br />
a. Child health;<br />
b. Chronic disease control;<br />
c. Communicable disease control;<br />
d. Dental public health;<br />
e. Family planning;<br />
f. Health promotion and risk reduction;<br />
g. Maternal health.</p>
<p>The Commission for Health Services shall determine specific services to be provided under each of the essential public health services categories listed above.</p>
<p>(c) The General Assembly recognizes that there are health-related services currently provided by State and local government and the private sector that are important to maintaining a healthy social and ecological environment but that are not included on the list of essential public health services required under this section. Omission of these services from the list of essential public health services shall not be construed as an intent to prohibit or decrease their availability. Rather, such omission means only that the omitted services may be more appropriately assured by government agencies or private entities other than the public health system.</p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: Pirate</title>
		<link>http://pulse.ncpolicywatch.org/2007/12/12/bush-to-veto-schip-again-today/comment-page-1/#comment-4313</link>
		<dc:creator>Pirate</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Dec 2007 14:31:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pulse.ncpolicywatch.org/?p=758#comment-4313</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m just trying to understand what you base your beliefs on...  By what logic does government derive the power to force subjects to buy a private good or service that they may or may not utilize?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m just trying to understand what you base your beliefs on&#8230;  By what logic does government derive the power to force subjects to buy a private good or service that they may or may not utilize?</p>
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		<title>By: gregflynn</title>
		<link>http://pulse.ncpolicywatch.org/2007/12/12/bush-to-veto-schip-again-today/comment-page-1/#comment-4288</link>
		<dc:creator>gregflynn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Dec 2007 19:40:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pulse.ncpolicywatch.org/?p=758#comment-4288</guid>
		<description>You&#039;re fighting your own shadow.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;re fighting your own shadow.</p>
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		<title>By: Pirate</title>
		<link>http://pulse.ncpolicywatch.org/2007/12/12/bush-to-veto-schip-again-today/comment-page-1/#comment-4286</link>
		<dc:creator>Pirate</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Dec 2007 18:53:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pulse.ncpolicywatch.org/?p=758#comment-4286</guid>
		<description>Greg - on what basis does government derive this power?  It certainly does not come from the Constitution or from Western Liberal philosophy.  I am not aware of any religion that would suggest the government has the right to force subjects to buy health insurance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Greg &#8211; on what basis does government derive this power?  It certainly does not come from the Constitution or from Western Liberal philosophy.  I am not aware of any religion that would suggest the government has the right to force subjects to buy health insurance.</p>
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